Dumbledore was worse than Hitler

Now, we dare the wrath of Godwin and his almighty simpleton’s Law (In a world where metrics for evil are almost impossible to agree upon, his wretched self has managed to make the only one all agreed on completely unaccessible for use by anyone– a sin for which he should be bent over and punted in the backside on a regimented daily basis) and address the actual nature of fiction’s second most-beloved white bearded old wizard. He was kind, grandfatherly, committed to a noble cause…

….and, alongside Nicholas Flamel, his old partner, is personally responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler himself.

Do the math. He and Flamel created the Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone, a magical trinket that could 1)turn base metal to gold 2)create an elixir that restore youth and cure all illnesses. Flamel used it for himself and his wife (and possibly shared it with Dumbledore) for literally hundreds of years, then destroyed it in a fit of sanctimony when one pathetic evil wizard came sniffing about for it.

Destroyed it. In a world where over eight million people a year die of cancer alone.

Now, I don’t know a thing about London, but I’m pretty sure they have a hospital or two there. Probably a children’s hospital. And if they do, they probably have a terminal ward. Even if Dumbledore and Flamel never left London in their lives, they knew that millions of Muggles, many of them children, were dying tragically every day from incurable illnesses and they did not lift a finger to save them. Dumbledore and Flamel had the cure to cancer, AIDS, Leukemia, Malaria, everything from the flu to freaking ebola to massive traumatic organ failure, and they destroyed it… after hoarding it for hundreds of years. More people died needlessly of cancer alone during that time than were killed in the entirety of World War II; at least ten to a hundred times the number.

How evil would the man who destroyed Jonas Salk’s vaccine for Polio be?

Now I’m sure that some blithering idiot out there is going to start flubbering about the traumatic effects to Muggle and Wizard society that would have occurred, had they gone about willy-nilly curing people with a magic panacea. Let me save you some time: shut up, you’re a moron. There is no distance between you and your deeds, and all your ethical equivocations means jack squat when you are standing at the foot of a dying child’s bed and refuse to save them for fear of upsetting the tea cart. Feel free to explain why millions of innocents should assuredly die, for your fear that an evil person might live (And if evil people are afoot in your world, is it or is it not your job to deal with them yourself rather than hope they die of something infectious or keel over from old age??) or because you, in your limited, shortsighted perspective, can’t possibly figure out how a world full of happy, healthy, youthful people in their physical and mental prime could ever cope with having so many people alive and walking around.

If they had possessed the moral fiber of a flobberworm, the instant they made the first Philosopher’s Stone Dumbledore and Flamel should have been cranking them out as fast as they could make them till they could distribute the elixir like soda pop.

Good or evil are not measured by how benevolent you think you are, or how benevolent others think you are, it is measured by your actual deeds– the evil you did, and the good you refused to do. By that cold and analytical metric, Dumbledore stands as the bloodiest villain in human history.

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Dumbledore was worse than Hitler — 16 Comments

  1. While there may or may not be a valid case here, I would just like to point out that the Philosopher’s Stone is insufficiently described within the books; we do know, for concrete fact, that it can extend the drinker’s life, but there’s nothing to say whether it had curative properties. Further more, the effects apparently had a time limit; don’t drink some more before the last dose wears off, and you die.

    So, presuming that the elixir causes all those deceases to “halt,” or at least prevents them from outright killing the sufferers, you either have a situation where, somewhere down the line, you have to make the decision of how long is reasonably enough for a full, fulfilling life (They’ll keep on ticking until the sun runs out as long as they take the potion) before cutting them off, or you have a group of people in terrible pain perpetually. As I said, insufficient data on the effects and working of the elixir.

    Presuming that the elixir did cure all illnesses, and they could reasonably create more Philosopher’s stones to meet with the supply demands, and you didn’t have to worry about the people suddenly being re-inflicted with their illness the moment they stopped taking their potion, then yeah, dick moves all around.

    Also, I would like to point out that Godwin did not, when coining his law, mean it in the spirit of “Once you mention Nazis, further discussion is meaningless;” Godwin, personally, just felt that the frequency with which people would “play the Nazi card,” as it were, was offensive, being that to his mind, it cheapened the tragedy of the Holocaust. It’s like when you say a word enough times all at once, and it just starts to lose meaning; to Godwin, his thoughts were that all the Nazi comparisons made the atrocities they committed less and less, well, atrocious.

    • The author went with the mythological description of the stone… in which the elixir was supposed to render one immortal and heal all sickness and wounds. Furthermore, Voldemort wanted it because it would restore him to full vitality from a state of near death— that pretty much clarifies it as a healing draught. Remember, Unicorn blood already held death in mere abeyance as you describe.

      And whatever Godwin may have “meant,” the ACTUAL RESULTS of his law is that you can no longer mention Hitler in any context.

      • Point.

        Alas, you can hardly blame Godwin for that. He had no party in that. No, what you should be blaming is the internet culture; ie, the people who misappropriated Godwin’s law and abused it as a “Ha hah you mentioned Nazis I win” button. Imagine if, upon the invention of chess and all its rules, it suddenly became common place for people to merely throw the pieces at each other, to the point that those who played it as intended were far and few between.

        Godwin laid out the chess board, and then the internet monkeys started belting each other with the pieces and claiming victory.

  2. It’s a bit weird. There are some issues that you and I disagree vehemently on. (Eg, you once banned me from your forum because you were uncomfortable with my support for Wikileaks.) And then you go and write posts or comics based on ideas I cannot possibly disagree with: that life is better than death, health is better than sickness, lack of pain is better than suffering.

  3. I must address a couple things here that fair well leapt off the page at me. The first, and greatest error: the fact that Dumbassdore (no, I’m not a fan of him either, but stay with me) had anything to do with the creation of the Stone. That was Flamel and his wife, and they did it well over four centuries and likely more than five centuries before Albus was even born. While Albus was shown to have possession of the Stone at least prior to Harry’s entering Hogwarts, I fail to recall any mention whatsoever anywhere in JKR’s books or commentary that Albus even knew how to use the thing as anything but a paperweight or as Dark Lord bait.

    The Flamel / Dumbassdore collaboration you are likely confusing this with was experiments on the multitude of uses for dragon’s blood.

    I want to be clear on this next point: I fully agree that if you have something you unequivocally know will save the life of a terminal patient, you should definitely do so.

    But you assert, essentially, that the Stone was capable of producing such a quantity as would be required. As noted by TLV above, exactly how the Elixir produced operates is not made clear, and I add to that my point on amount produced. We have no canon (again, that I can recall) stating how much Elixir the Stone could produce. For all we know, keeping just two people alive for over six centuries required the full output of the Stone. Further, there’s no evidence that Albus was ever partaking of the Elixir, and it wasn’t Flamel who destroyed the Stone, it was Dumbledore.

    I enjoy your comics, and you do raise some cogent points in them, but for the love of little animals do a little more fact checking than the “We Hate Albus Dumbledore Thread Because He’s Done All The Evil” when you want to tear the idiot apart. Your case becomes weak when your main points are either a) flat out wrong or b) unsupported supposition.

    Take a better shot at the old fart – he says it himself in book 5 after Sirius falls through the veil that he knew by leaving Harry in the care of the Dursleys he was sentencing a toddler to a very dark and unpleasant childhood, and that Harry’s appearance on arriving at Hogwarts was right in line with whatever cockamamie plan the goat pulled out of his own ass.

    • He is listed as Flamel’s partner. And he was apparently intimate enough with Flamel’s work that he could be trusted with the stone itself. So he’s Goebbel rather than Hitler? Hardly an improvement.

      No matter the output of the stone itself, they knew how to make the stone. In hundreds of years they should have been working to crack out at least one more stone– or replicate the elixir.

      I also find it just fabulous that the old fool had the stone right there… and left his grievously injured students to recuperate in the infirmary rather than use the stone to mend them (we could bring up Fawkes, but that just makes it worse for him.)

      • Again, you leap ahead. We know for a fact that Flamel knew how to make a Stone, but we don’t know exactly what went into it. For all we know, the creation of the Stone was an instance of Teflon where the researcher hadn’t kept close enough notes to be able to replicate the process. Again key: we are not informed on so many factors that leaves us with extremely few details, including whether or not Flamel knew how to make another Stone, whether or not Albus knew how to make another Stone, and finally, we have no indication to the opposite: that the Flamels actually were spending a great deal of those many centuries of extended life attempting to replicate the Stone and failing.

        Your point on grievously injured students – who exactly was so badly injured during Harry’s First Year, the only year we know for certain that the Stone was in Dumbassdore’s keeping, not knowing exactly when that guardianship began?

        Bringing in Fawkes just repeats the same problems: how much tears can the phoenix make, what are the required secondary situations to make it possible, how long would tears be able to be stored, when did Fawkes even take up roosting in the Headmaster’s office… The questions are many, and the answers are extremely few.

        We know only one instance of Fawkes producing a few tears, and the effect of that donation: Harry was healed of the basilisk poison, and the wound from the fang itself closed. We have no further indication as to whether or not the tears’ effects spread further than that, other than the neutralization of the poison itself. Granted, this would seem to imply that all of Harry’s wounds (bruises, abrasions, etc. earned while jumping about battling the basilisk) were healed, but we don’t know if that was the limit of the tears’ ability. We have exactly one data point to show on our graph for this. I could go outside right know, stare at the sky, and say “there are lots of grey clouds up there. Thus, the standard atmosphere of this planet is to have heavy grey clouds all the time” with that line of thought.

        Again, you raise cogent points but your support for them is extremely limited or not given us by the author of the canon in question. Also again, I sincerely despise the character of Albus Dumbledore. He’s cruel, and carefully so at that – witness leaving Harry as a year-old babe on the step of the Dursley’s house knowing exactly how well he’d be treated. Comments about a grand plan being in action around Harry, and getting Harry ready to fight for his life against a murderous psychopath by the method of showing him home videos. Seriously, you need to fight a monster, you need to know how it fights, not how it bumbling about as a new-hatched being. And you need to know how to fight yourself; Dumbassdore did no such thing, and he had an entire ****** year to do it!

  4. Actually, you’re definitely wrong about Dumbledore helping create the Philosopher’s Stone. Flamel had been around for about 700 years, and Dumbledore is only ~150. What the text actually states is that Dumbledore is known for his work on Alchemy with Flamel. So it’s not at all certain that he even knows how to create one.

    And even if Dumbledore knows how to create a Stone, he certainly learned how to do it from Flamel. Let that sink in for a moment. In all the centuries that people were seeking immortality, only ONE person ever managed it. This implies that it’s difficult at best to create it.

    So. What would be the results of releasing this absurdly valuable item to the world? Keep in mind that in 1991 there were around 5 billion people in the world. To let everyone have equal access you would need, at minimum, 500 million Stones.

    And what happens if you try to release them incrementally? The answer is simple: chaos. People would tear each other to pieces to get access to the Stones. If you give it to the poor, the government would be coerced by the rich to take it away, causing civil war. If you give it to the rich, civil war again. And this ignore the people that would hunt wizards to extinction in order to force them to make an item the vast majority can’t.

    So. Mass release is next to impossible, because you would need to train, from scratch, a large number of wizards to make the Stones. Keep in mind that the human population is always expanding, so the number of Stones needed is always increasing.

    Limited release is even worse, because it leads to widespread chaos. Not to mention that the gold-producing aspect of the Stone would lead to a financial collapse that would make 2008 look tame.

    Given that Dumbledore is supposed to be intelligent, I think he’s capable of figuring all this out. In short: RELEASING the Stone to the world would make him worse than Hitler.

    Also, it’s entirely possible that only a wizard can use the stone, because muggles don’t have any magic. But that’s pure speculation.

  5. Again— speculations about what MIGHT happen if the stone or the elixir were released to the public are irrelevant. Death supersedes any other problem. If you see a child trapped in a burning building, you do not say “but what if they grow up to be a mass murderer or a drug dealer?”

    The gold-creating aspect would cause an economic upheaval, all right– but compared to what? We already have that, due to universal fiat currency!

    Economics, politics, all of it– is secondary to the prime issue: saving lives.

  6. The author really, really doesn’t give us enough information to make a sweeping generalization like this. Given that it’s referred to as “the” Philosopher’s Stone, and not “a” Philosopher’s Stone, one might be tempted to infer that only one can exist, not unlike the Elder Wand, the Resurrection Stone, the true Cloak. But we don’t know.

    We also don’t know the first thing about how the elixir is made. How much can be made? (Perhaps just enough to extend the lives of two people?) How is it made? Aside from the Philosopher’s Stone, what is required to make it? We simply don’t know. That could be a limiting factor.

    There arises the question of what to do with a world where cancer patients are suddenly immortal. That goes a little bit beyond upsetting the applecart. When population grows and death is not there to shrink it, you run into some awful resource issues.

    In the end, however, I would like to offer this observation: Regardless of what he did or did not do with the Philosopher’s Stone, at least Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore had the great grace to be entirely fictional, a feat which Adolf Hitler sadly never managed.

    • To your final comment: Alas, too true.

      To the rest:
      1)We know that it EXISTS in the story. That is more than enough to know that the effort should have been made.

      2)the greatest problem SOLVED by the stone outweighs all the ones that MIGHT have been caused by it. And they are just that– problems. And humans are custom made to solve problems… and they CAN solve problems, but only if they are alive and of sound mind and body to try.

      As to resource issues: one commenter surprised me by pointing out that with the Stone, **interstellar colonization becomes feasible.**

  7. It’s. Magic.

    A WIZARD did it.

    Your trying to equate the atrocities of a real life monster to that of a senile fictional character.

    But let’s look past all that.

    The point is: we don’t know, we can’t know, and we will never know.

    What did it take to create a philosopher’s stone? Did it take something that went extinct in the 6 centuries that Flamel could have possibly been working on creating more of the stones? Like maybe the liver of a Dodo bird? Does it take some celestial event that lasts for one second that only happens once every 1,000 years? Was it an accident? A one in a million chance? (Borrowing from FMA) Is it made of people? Would we need to sacrifice other human beings for our immortality?

    Let’s not forget humans aren’t built to be immortal anyways. Limited memory space, time perception speeding up, and everything would eventually get boring. Yes, we MIGHT figure out a way around this, but how many people would suffer between now and then?

  8. Now, it’s been an age since I read Harry Potter, and I can hardly remember the particulars of the Stone, or Fawkes, but I’ll give it a go anyway.

    Your analysis may in fact be right, if Dumbledore existed in the same sense that we do. So, if you say “if Dumbledore was real, he should have done X”, you are probably right. However, there’s good reason for such things *not* to happen in the story, because Harry Potter is Fantasy, not Science Fiction. The Phoenix is a magical bird, and it is not Magic if it is used as a Medicine Machine. Sci-Fi is (oftentimes) about the wonderful power of technology to transform our world and solve the problems which ail us, but Fantasy is about wonder, and a process that is perfectly understood and manipulated (even if manipulated for the common good) is not wondrous.

  9. Lol, that’s actually a good point. I gotta run that by my Potterhead mom. As for my personal thoughts on it, I’d imagine the Ministry’d get in the way, you know how they are. Maybe they were concerned with overpopulation, though more liberal application of magic might fix that too. Or perhaps the Stone also grants medium awareness, and Flamel and Dumbledore realized that if they shared the stone, it’d make the Harry Potter timeline too different from real life, destroying the ‘maybe it’s real, and when I turn 11 I’ll get to go’ feeling that children get when they read the books.

  10. I was going to say something about the cost of making Philosophers’ Stones making them ineffective/inefficient to mass-produce or the consequences of distributing magic items to the mundane populace, but then I realized I was thinking of Full Metal Alchemist and Mage: The Awakening respectively. I don’t actually know that much about the Potterverse, but I’m guessing the decision not to spread use of the Stones was a case of prioritizing keeping the magical world secret from mundanes (I refuse to use the word “muggles”) higher than actually trying to benefit the world at large.

    That decision and other aspects of wizard culture have led me to believe that the Potterverse wizards’ policies of isolationism and racism against mundanes has led to them becoming a culture consisting mostly of smug reality-bending imbeciles.

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